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 Post subject: How to build a self-sustaining underground ecosystem?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:47 pm 
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I don't know how realistic this idea is, but I would like to figure out a way to build a deep underground bunker and have it closed off completely (with the exception of an air-tight door to get in and out, lol), but have it so there is a complete fully functionable ecosystem inside, with UV lights (substituting the sun), trees and plants that produce oxygen, water with fish, etc. Basically a huge vivarium... Obviously I don't expect to have deer, bears, etc running around down there, lmao, but I think you get the idea of what I'm getting at. A clean and controllable environment that is 100% separate from the disgusting environment this planet is turning into, nevermind what it will be like after a few nuclear bombs get tossed around. One specific thing I'd like to know is how many plants does it take to create the amount of air needed to breath, esp. when no other air supply is available? Any links to sites that go into detail and give good information on this topic would be greatly appreciated.
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 Post subject: Re: How to build a self-sustaining underground ecosystem?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:26 pm 
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Maybe this Wiki Page will give you an idea in how big something like that should be and what errors you can make:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosphere_2

It's a very interesting subject, a few points need alot of attention:
- how to dispose garbage
- how to recycle the water used to water the trees/plants
- how to make sure the eco system stays alive

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 Post subject: Re: How to build a self-sustaining underground ecosystem?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:25 pm 
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Have you seen Journey to the Center of the Earth yet? Great movie, I was thinking this same thing when I first saw it.

The Biosphere would be a good template for sure. I'm not too good at balancing ecosystems.

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 Post subject: Re: How to build a self-sustaining underground ecosystem?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:09 pm 
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It would cost a bit...


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 Post subject: Re: How to build a self-sustaining underground ecosystem?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:58 pm 
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Yeah, I have considered that.

The $200 million price tag for the B2 project is a little daunting....especially since theres was above ground and could take advantage of the natural sunlight.

So to build something not as large but functional underground would be that much and more I am afraid.

My concept was to construct it in a pyramid shape. with 80% or so underground and the top 3 or 4 levels above ground.
The entire thing would be about 10 levels. Anyway as I said. I have no idea where I would get that kind of $$ but I started with a vision and then the $$ will hopefully follow.

Pyramid...cause it wont fall over, can withstand enormous geological pressure. But then the Mayans and Egyptians knew that.

Its a great concept and I am sure of the several hundred bases that have been built several are along those lines.

interested to see how you progress on the idea.

Ace

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 Post subject: Re: How to build a self-sustaining underground ecosystem?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:34 am 
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You could ask the government how they do it. I've heard there is a rather large facility under the ground near Maryland.


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 Post subject: Re: How to build a self-sustaining underground ecosystem?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:15 am 
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I've been considering this myself. I concluded i need a big cave and work from there.
Your main concern, i think, is energy. After all, if you can't juice the light bulbs to light your plants, how will you get light (and from there oxygen, food, etc.)?
Energy basically solves all your problems. This is why i've been looking into alternative energy options. There's a company that is, or will be soon, selling self-sustaining magnetic energy at 5000 Australian dollars a unit.

I believe this is why the world still runs on this barbaric oil system, because the powers-that-be know that energy frees mankind up. If you've read about alternative energy you read about people getting threatened or (when that doesn't help) killed because they developed some kind of alternative energy source and try to spread the word.

So what's your energy solution? How were you going to get the lights down there to work?

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 Post subject: Re: How to build a self-sustaining underground ecosystem?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:45 pm 
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Depending on set up, possibly Geo-thermic might work. The magnetic unit would be ideal, (i've only done a bit of reading about it... But..)

You might also want to look into some of Nasa's space plans. The hydroponics systems they use evidently are pretty good about recycling water... Just a thought though.

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 Post subject: Re: How to build a self-sustaining underground ecosystem?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:31 pm 
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Heres an idea

Stock up on seeds, fertilizer, hydroponics equipment, food stocks, anything and everything you need to have a renewable food source. Bury them in the higher elevations in Nevada near Hoover Dam (be sure to have transportation and gas as well such as ATVs and fishing boats) When 2012 hits, infiltrate the Hoover dam facility. It will be a self sustaining source of electricity, it is practically a fortress, the generators run themselves almost, you have a limitless supply of water plus there will be other people there to help you survive and the place is huge.Transport your supplies to the dam, Set up your gardens, form a security team, fish from the dam, bring in a few edible farm animals and you are set for a very long period of time.


XOXOXO

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 Post subject: Re: How to build a self-sustaining underground ecosystem?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:05 pm 
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XSlayerALE wrote:
Heres an idea

Stock up on seeds, fertilizer, hydroponics equipment, food stocks, anything and everything you need to have a renewable food source. Bury them in the higher elevations in Nevada near Hoover Dam (be sure to have transportation and gas as well such as ATVs and fishing boats) When 2012 hits, infiltrate the Hoover dam facility. It will be a self sustaining source of electricity, it is practically a fortress, the generators run themselves almost, you have a limitless supply of water plus there will be other people there to help you survive and the place is huge.Transport your supplies to the dam, Set up your gardens, form a security team, fish from the dam, bring in a few edible farm animals and you are set for a very long period of time.


XOXOXO


I see a problem with this... The Hoover Dam is pretty strong, but if one of the dams upstream gives out from water pressure/disaster, etc, the increased water pressure will be a burden on the Hoover Dam

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 Post subject: Re: How to build a self-sustaining underground ecosystem?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:55 am 
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start with something simple and build on it.
drill a well in the shelter and put a septic tank in with a low flow toilet a good septic wont need to be pumped for 3to 5 years what ever you can't compost flush it.
with a green house in a separate area with a worm compost bin (worms are edible and full of protein if it gets that bad and things go wrong)
you can compost most of your food cloth and paper trash do some reading on this give them coffee and they multiply, then you have snack food for the chickens plant food for the garden. a lot of people talk about can food that is not a good idea to me any food not in a disposable biodegradable package I would use canning jars bring extra lids and you can reuse them if you have to many cluttering up the place you can Grind them to powder and flush.
there is a lot of work but you can become self sufficient and semi bio dome.
the price don't have to be in the millions don't use the florescent bulbs they release mercury if they break, will poison the ground up to 15 years use led lights in the living area. and you will need special light for the planting area which draw a lot of power and generate heat which is good because under ground temperature stays between 50 and 60 degrees plants need minimum 12 hours light per day when starting and around 70 degrees , and less light to go to flower must go to flower to get fruit or veggies hope you know how to garden,
one thing people don't talk about is a air e vac system if you were to have a fire or burn something you want a way to change the air in the area quickly, they have exercise bikes that will charge 12 volt batteries you need to work out why not generate juice since you will need a lot PV panels and wind generators are your best bet for the lights but they could get damaged above ground so have back up plan like a little pump that cause water to flow to turbine which is attach to a generator to charge batteries which will run the pump like perpetual motion and the flowing water is relaxing.and like a river flowing through the grow room.

some one told me about some show they seen were they rent out space in old steel mines were you can use it to build storage or shelters I have been trying to find it but no luck the show was call underground city's they said.


http://www.crystalinks.com/underbases.html


http://americanbombshelter.com/

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 Post subject: Re: How to build a self-sustaining underground ecosystem?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:03 am 
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refuge wrote:
I see a problem with this... The Hoover Dam is pretty strong, but if one of the dams upstream gives out from water pressure/disaster, etc, the increased water pressure will be a burden on the Hoover Dam



True enuf However Hoover Dam has the new spill off systems incorporated into it that automatically keeps the level of the lake within the Dam's structural parameters. Excess levels of water would be let out almost without human intervention. This is also one of the reasons I suggested to be on the higher elevations because any emergency spilloffs could endanger your stored resources should you locate thm downstream of the dam.

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 Post subject: Re: How to build a self-sustaining underground ecosystem?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:08 pm 
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bremmermandrake wrote:
some one told me about some show they seen were they rent out space in old steel mines were you can use it to build storage or shelters
great ideas. I know about mines in Wales and the Dominican Republic. No one uses them and sometimes they have all kinds of levels and possibilities. An old mine is almost as good as an old cave.

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 Post subject: Re: How to build a self-sustaining underground ecosystem?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:28 pm 
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here is a nice addition for any shelter/bunker look around the site for low energy equipment


http://www.sunfrost.com/home_composters.html

* Freezers



For power outages, we can equip your Sun Frost refrigerator with a non-interruptible power supply!
Sun Frost refrigerators and freezers are so outstandingly energy-efficient,

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 Post subject: Re: How to build a self-sustaining underground ecosystem?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:48 pm 
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Mb-Coupe:

I know that you were thinking of moving to Northern Ontario to escape the 2012 cataclysm and we discussed your plans in a previous post. Your idea of building a self-sustaining bunker eco-system is fine in theory. However, before you spend a single penny on such a scheme, you need to get the professional advice of competent geologists and civil engineers.

Location is going to be crucial. You should first obtain a geological map of the area that you have in mind. Next, you will have to do some research on the geological history of the area. Factors such as the proximity of the nearest tectonic plates, certain geostrophic phenomena as well as the sustainability of the geosphere should all be calculated.

Next, you should read the works of Immanuel Velikovsky and F.L.Boschke in order to get a fair idea of how the axis shift will affect your particular area. Many people who write on this forum apparently do not realize that an axis shift will follow certain patterns determined by the laws of physics. Your geologist advisors should be able to advise you whether, as I suspect, Northern Ontario comprises nascent caldera.

Your homework is going to be hard and very demanding, but it is better to base your plans on facts, evidence, verifiable data and hard science rather than on emotion and half-baked theories which will culminate in disaster.


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