Thanks for the links Del. They show that this author has collated a hodge-podge of conflicting info from Aluna Joy, Jose Arguelles, channeled material from Virgil Armstrong, plus rumours and speculation. I could write an essay on all the errors in it, but will just say this:

1. The 3113 BC start date is confusing as it was originally used in the early days before calculators, and Arguelles quoted it from those early sources. Since the Gregorian calendar has no "year zero", (Jesus was supposedly born in 1AD - the previous year was 1 BC). Nowadays, we add an extra year to BC dates, since the alternative would be to compensate for the missing year by addinfg a year to AD dates - then the 13 baktun cycle would appear to end in 2013 - this is the conclusion that Smelyakov reached (and later corrected).

2. Pacal and Votan werre 2 separate people who lived centuries apart - Arguelles welded them into one person - see

http://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/new9.htm#pacal

3. The 22 calendars of the Maya: This is like saying we have 8 calendars - days, weeks, months, years, decades, centuries and millennia, plus the leap-year calendar. It takes calendar cycles and calls them calendars!

4. To say that the Maya "have a calendar system whose grand Thirteen Baktun cycle will end either on December 24, 2011 or June 6, 2012 (depending on your method of calculation)" is doubly incorrect the first one is from Frank Waters (confusion factor 3) and the second is the date of the Venus Transit in 2012 - I thought these had come from Peter Balin's 1978 book, The Flight of the Feathered Serpent, but that gave 21st December 2011 and 6th June 2012 - see

http://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/new7.htm#feedback

For an explanation of confusing end-dates, see:

http://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/new3.htm#enddateconf

5. No evidence of the supposed prophecy source is given from the Dresden, though he says its all in there - and if not there, all the other Maya codices. Well, I think he probably got this from Britt and Lee Elders, (or Jaime Maussan, who quoted them) who claimed that the Dresden codex predicted the 1999 eclipse. However, I asked Mayanist Mike Finley and he said this was not correct. See:

http://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/new4.htm#dresden

EYES - sorry if I blanked you - thanks for the welcome. Tortuga is where you get your Dreamspell glyph, which although derived from the Mayan glyph, is not the glyph accepted by Maya who use the calendars today, and have been doing so in an unbroken chain for thousands of years.

For finding out your daysign ("decoding you" as the Dreamspell jargon has it), in the Quiche Maya day-count, I recommend downloading Makransky's program (if you have a PC):

http://www.dearbrutus.com/body_mayan_text.html

or getting a free summary at Bruce Scofield's site:

http://www.onereed.com/cgi-bin/azreport.cgi

The links to these and many other date calculators (with explanations), are on the Maya links page here, along with a handy Maya date calculator so you can instantly check your daysign:

http://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/mlink.htm

The Dreamspell system was developed by Arguelles, based on a correlation found in the Chilam Balam of Mani - a book that I have in my library, and which has many conflicting and unreliable correlations in it...the 13-moon calendar is also a calendar that was not used by the Maya. They had 13 constellations, but each lunar month had alternately 29 and 30 days, giving a 29.5-day average - not 28!! They also had a method of correction for the odd bit left over...see this:

http://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/dspell.htm

and

http://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/harm.htm

By all means, replace the Gregorian calendar, but can we have a 5-day week, please? Then we can have a 3-day working week, retain 2 days off but have them every 3 days...and that would avoid keeping the evil Babylonian 7-day week,...5 days also divides nicely into 365, unlike 7, so we could have the same days of the month repeating on the same days of the week for 3 out of 4 years - providing we keep the leap-year.

fascinating theory! Would this fall along the lines of Gregg Braden's Zero Point logic?

Thanks for all of the links! I can't read enough of this!!!

I absolutely love where this thread has evolved!!!

F_A_S_C_I_N_A_T_I_N_G!!!

For a moment, I just want to briefly touch upon the title of this thread. When I was in Tulum visiting the Mayan ruins, my Mayan guide, Beto stated, "when Katun 20 comes, the people of corn will no longer be humans". I asked Beto what his personal interpretation of this meant to which he replied, "Something bigger will happen to change our perspective of life."

I was reading the piece on "Poleshift in 9792 BC" when it spurred the recollection of a dream I had last night. I was outside my house and it was dark. I could see the stars flying by as if the earth was either spinning faster than possible or as if we were going into a supermassive black hole.

As strange as it sounds, this was a comforting dream. I wasn't scared and felt completely at ease during this dream.

Words From Mayan Grand Elder Wakatel Utiw
(Wandering Wolf)


We have several prophecies concerning the time we are living in, and it is in fulfillment of the Prophecies that we are here today. I will mention some of them:

“At the time of the 13 Baktun and 13 Ahau is the time of the return of our Ancestors and the return of the men of wisdom.” That time is now.

Another one says: “Arise, everyone, stand up! Not one, nor two groups be left behind the rest”. This prophecy is in reference to all: rich or poor, black or white, men or women, indigenous or non indigenous, we all are equal, we all have dignity, we all deserve respect, we all deserve happiness; we all are useful and necessary to the growth of the country and to make a nation where we can live with respect among the different cultures.

The Prophecy says: “Those of the Center, with their mystical bird Quetzal, make unite the Eagle of the North with the Condor of the South; we will meet because we are one, like the fingers of the hand.” This prophecy means that the Indigenous People of the North and the Indigenous People of the South, through those of the Center, will come together to strengthen the recovery of the ancestral science; recovery of our identity, art, spirituality and Cosmo-vision on life and death that the different Cultures have.

We the Indigenous People join together in defense of the life of the human species, in defense of the life of our brother animals and the trees and in defense of the life of Mother Earth, because the life of the Planet Earth is in danger. We all know that what is happening in the world now is not a coincidence. As examples: The hurricanes and the heavy storms that are menacing different places in the world; the high temperatures that day by day rise to higher degree, while in other parts of the world the cold becomes more intense; rivers are drying out and others are disappearing; the glaciers are melting; many places in the world are suffering the effects of natural disasters; and all of these are the result of our imbalance with Nature. One other thing, our country, our communities are living under fear due to the violence, the drugs, and confrontations with those who are in search for power and wealth.

It is necessary that the behavior of human beings all over the world has to change; the life of the Planet Earth is responsibility of all and that is why the invitation from the Indigenous people is for everyone, to help save human life, save the planet thus inheriting a healthy future to the new generations. It is for this reason that we invite everyone, indigenous and non indigenous to understand and respect each other; we invite each one to make an effort to change the negative attitude towards the indigenous and towards women in general. We invite each minister, each public employee, to work for the eradication of racism, discrimination and the inequality that exist in our country.

The Mayan Prophecy says: “Let my big Melody play, let my small Melody play, let my dancers loose, let my prisoners be free; these are my valleys, these are my mountains.” These are the words of Rabinal Achi. Why do I say “my valleys and mountains are prisoners”? Because they are being used as centers for nuclear testing, because they are being perforated without compassion, drawing the blood of Mother Earth, extracting her oil and minerals that only increase the contamination and bring about destruction. The mountains are prisoners of men because with the chainsaw of the big monopolies are murdering its trees, and with it go the animals that inhabit them. They say that we the indigenous, the country people, and the poor Ladinos are the ones killing the trees, and only for the small amount of wood that we use for cooking our sacred nourishment. This is not true. One can never compare the use we make of the trees with the commercial objectives that the big corporations have with the trees. It is not true that we the poor and the indigenous are the ones who are killing the trees when we are not even owners of land. This way of thinking is simply part of the same racism. It is easy to blame the weak. From the Maya Cosmo-vision point of view, no one owns the land; we are just one more element of life and of Nature, and this is why we are inviting every human being to help save our Mother Earth.

According to the Maya Long Count Calendar, we are finalizing the 13 Baktun and 13 Ahau, thus approaching the YEAR CERO. We are at the doorsteps of the ending of another period of the Sun, a period that lasts 5,200 years and ends with several hours of darkness. After this period of darkness there comes a new period of the Sun; it will be the 6th one. In each period of the Sun there is an adjustment for the planet and it brings changes in the weather conditions and in social and political life as well.

The world is transformed and we enter a period of understanding and harmonious coexistence where there is social justice and equality for all. It is a new way of life. With a new social order there comes a time of freedom where we can move like the clouds, without limitations, without borders. We will travel like the birds, without the need for passports. We will travel like the rivers, all heading towards the same point…the same objective. The Mayan prophecies are announcing a time of change. The Pop Wuj, the book of the Counsel, tells us, “It is time for dawn; let the dawn come, for the task to be finished.”

It is based in this prophecy that I make the following reflection: In present time, we the indigenous, non indigenous and Ladino people still don’t see ourselves as true brothers and sisters; we haven’t reached the place where there is no room for racism, discrimination and exclusion, where we all feel like citizens with dignity. Many don’t believe there is racism, discrimination, and despise towards citizens of indigenous communities, but the reality is that we feel it and we live it every moment. We experience it all the time, as workers and as citizens. I ask myself, “Why is this, if we are all humans, if we all have the same feelings and dignity, and we all are equal?” I think that there is so much to learn still, such as learning to recognize the identity, the value, and the wisdom that the indigenous nations have regarding living a good life. This gives us the inspiration to live and to be a better person every day.

http://www.maya12-21-2012.com/calendar.html
http://www.commonpassion.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=74emid=80

Times and dates are concepts of man nothing more. If anything happens on said date it will be man made.

With out humans there would be no clocks, calenders, God, words, Language or tea time. would even be hard to get a cold beer.

So, by this thinking, if we didn't invent clocks that tell us when it is noon, the Sun would not reach its peak point in the sky? Clocks, calendars, etc. are merely man-made devices of measurement. Think of the Mayan calendar as a giant clock with hands pointing up midnight: whether the clock exists or not, midnight is coming.

No more "happy hour"? sigh....

I guess that could be a good thing for the ladies...no more "2 minute" men LOL

No, the sun will rise and set rather we are here to measure it or not. A tape measure will only measure a fish but the fish is the true measure of the measuring stick. A Mountain is a mountain and a table is man made. Understand now?

Sex is timeless and it creates timlessness if its done right.

Sure, but that's not what you said. At all.

"Anything that happens on said date will be man made" implies that the only events that will be relevent on 122112 will be manufactured and not based on something external to man.

That is my conviction and sted fast is my thesis.

There's a documentary on the Science Channel called "Time". I TiVo'd it and it's quite fascinating.

TM, if time is a concept of man, then why do grunyans come to Newport Beach on one precise night for two precise hours to mate? They have no concept of "time" yet they still know exactly where and when to go without a compass, a GPS system, a calculator, or without a wristwatch. The moon and tides provide cues to the grunyan, but it's not something they think about. Their timing, however precise, is purely an instinct.

"Time is a force of nature" is the sentiment of the program. Professor Warren Meck from Duke University calls it a "stopwatch" in our brain that includes a "brain circuit that's very selective on keeping time." Through specific testing, Meck was able to pinpoint the area of the brain responsible for the stopwatch effect. The subject is given and hand-held remote to respond to duration stimuli while in an MRI. The results detect the subject's experience of "time passing" and allow the imaging to pinpoint the exact area of the brain that controls "time".

The area that the "stopwatch" is located in is a small area in the front of the brain (ironically located near your "3rd eye" area).

Meck stated that there's "thousands of brain cells inside of there that tick tock like a stopwatch."
The host, Michio Kaku, a theoretical physicist from the City University of New York stated the following:
"This sense of time passing is embedded within our neurochemistry of our brains. A cluster of cells near the base of our brain releases a chemical that acts as a start signal. This then triggers a group of neurons at the front of the brain to fire together but each to a different beat. And it's this pattern of beats that signals how much time has elapsed. This happens without us even knowing it. We're timing the world around us."

To watch this program, it can be seen at the following times:
http://science.discovery.com/tv-schedul ... 11.33080.2

For more about Meck's stopwatch work, read this:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... i_18051349

There is a huge underwater timex clock and it takes a licking and keeps on ticking. all the sea creature know about it Posiden lost it and Zuse made it in his tinker shop in London. Honey Bees use a thermometer and wear gass masks to protect them from insecticides. did you know nicotene in an insectcide along with Caffeine?
Shoot your flouride tooth paste is rat poison. Or rat poison is tooth paste wich ever. They spike city water with flouride now days to keep us submisive. flouride can/will cause brain damage in babies.

sure there is a natural responce to cliamte change, rotating earth and sun and moon. Thing is if you stoped the earth from spinning those creaturse would be lets say lost or if the sun burned out the plants would not gnow when to seed.

But if Man/humans destroyed all his mechanical clocks nature would still fly south for the winter and the sun would still rise in the east and even young ladies would still have their menstral cycles, but even though many would still follow on their mopeds.

The only thing that would change if clocks was gone forever is Humans behavior. and thats my point. but if you can juss prove that everthing is ok and we are on the right coarse as humans them dickidy do I will see you. So far your juss like reading a old news paper in SanFransico

Maya i find it very hard to beleive your in any way enlightend but only by worldly new age rubbish. Or as I said before another Agent of darkness. COINTELPRO

Have you spent any time at all in contemplation on any thing other than your wishy washy worldly wisdom? You came here to sell your self as a "Light worker" and get bites on your site just admit it. Your on a crusade. Get some gold along the way for vacation and retirment.

Help me to believe in you and your "lightwork" methods and they arnt just purchased at a new age dime store. Perhaps to much public schooled collage has brain washed you.

how much for reading my middle finger?

Shabbot Shalom