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 Post subject: Will Submarine Survive The Great Disaster
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 9:24 am 
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Apologize for this following dumb questions.

I've watched the 2012 movie, and with those super volcanoes eruption,and the whole land plate within big area has been shifted or cracked. It's obviously no bunkers will survive this kind of disaster, not to mention the big tsunami(s) as high as Mt. Everest. And with the hot ash and debris from volcanic eruptions covering the air, the sky also not save for airplanes.

But one thing never mention in this forum is: What is the possibility of submarines to survive this kind of disaster?

I am not a scientist, and in my simple point of view, submarine can always dive to safest depth and wait for things to settle down.

Thanks in advance for your opinions.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Submarine Survive The Great Disaster
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:35 am 
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When a storm or hurricane or typhoon happens, the waters that are directly under the weather phenomenon are stirred and a storm surge is created. Basically, the waves are pushed upward by the winds and low atmospheric pressures. They look menacing but just several meters underneath the waves, the waters are relatively calm and stable. When an underwater earthquake or landslide happens, it creates a tsunami. On top of the wave,s several miles off shore, boats would hardly notice the tsunami passing by. They are just lifted up and dropped back down gently. Underneath the waves though, is like a typhoon. Divers and marine life are churned end over end for hours until the giant tsunami passes. This happens all the way to the bottom of the ocean. Contrary to Hollywood, a tsunami doesnt break like the North Shore in Hawaii 5-0. The water first recedes significantly, then comes back like a very fast high tide and then crests over its usual highest level and just keeps coming and coming. Tsunami comes in several waves lasting for hours from first wave to last. Then it recedes almost as fast and flushes anything it destroyed back into the ocean.



The 2012 movie depicts a fantastically impossible global plate shift or pole shift. The waves created would destroy any submerged submarine like it was a toy. It would be better to ride out the giant waves on the surface.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Submarine Survive The Great Disaster
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:02 pm 
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Thanks XSlayerALE,

So, submarine has to be flexible in adjusting it's depth depend on the situation. If it is perfect storm then dive a little bit from surface. But in case of tsunami, the submarine should leveling itself near the surface for better change of surviving.

I think stay in submarine offshore the sea is much safer compare with stay on the land.
At least, in the sea you don't get hit by dangerous things from volcano eruption, hurricane, or tsunami.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Submarine Survive The Great Disaster
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:39 pm 
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Last edited by Ken McClellan on Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Submarine Survive The Great Disaster
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:32 pm 
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@ Ken McClellan
Thanks for the opinion.

The weakest point of a bunker is its exit door(s). If some big debris happen to fall on top of the exit(s), then we're already death.
Or worst, if after a big disaster, our area is deep below the water surface, then how do we get out from the bunker.

I prefer the sea solution for survival especially submarine, you can always adjust your depth in the open sea. When weather permit, you can even surface and do some fishing and have a barbecue on deck, assume there are fishes left in the sea. :D

Quote:
an unsinkable boat like the ones the Egyptians and South Americans used to weave out of reeds.

BTW, how do this boat look like?

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 Post subject: Re: Will Submarine Survive The Great Disaster
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:53 pm 
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Cen Sin wrote:
The weakest point of a bunker is its exit door(s). If some big debris happen to fall on top of the exit(s), then we're already death.
Or worst, if after a big disaster, our area is deep below the water surface, then how do we get out from the bunker.

The same could be said with a submarine. If everything went fine as predicted then the submarine can dip or rise to get out of trouble. However, if something goes wrong and the submarine is damaged, it doesnt automatically float to the surface ... it sinks. Then you would have the same problem as a bunker with a blocked exit. Thing is, in a bunker, if the door is blocked, you still have the option of digging your way out. You open up a submarine in depth and its instant death. :shock:

The real weakness for a bunker is its location. You dont make a bunker in lower elevations because of flooding. You cant place them in overly high elevations because construction would be hampered. You have to check for any and every possible thing that can go wrong and build against it, anything else and you will have to improvise as it happens.

BTW. Check this thread out

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=20032&p=304908&hilit=better+way#p304908

and you might also look at this old thread

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=15412

I know its a shameless self promotion but I happen to be arrogant and self centered :D

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 Post subject: Re: Will Submarine Survive The Great Disaster
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:25 am 
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Quote:
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=20032&p=304908&hilit=better+way#p304908
viewtopic.php?f=37&t=15412

I know its a shameless self promotion but I happen to be arrogant and self centered :D

@ XSlayerALE
It's good to have own personality, that's what make the world go around. :)
Thanks for pointing out the existing discussions related to submarine.

Yes, if the sub sink to deep level and we can't manage to float by blowing water out from the ballast (either automatically or manually,) then it will be our tomb.
Check out the movie 'das boot' (1981), it's a good movie to show what a sub capable of doing.

In comparison with bunker, submarine is more mobile and insulate by liquid (sea water).
The big issue is: it need more expertise to operate, more time to evacuate, expensive, and only suitable for government project.

As our earth surface consist more water area compare with land, and with the sea level keep rising, I think we should start to consider water (river/sea) as our alternative living space.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Submarine Survive The Great Disaster
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:50 am 
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If you really want an opinion as to what a good sea base bunker could be, it would be an oil rig. Most modern dee sea oil rigs arent anchored to the ground by towers. They actually are placed on submersibles and are anchored to the ocean floor by cables and the pipelines themselves

Image

These things can easily withstand hurricane force winds and waves and have known to survive 120 foot rogue waves. most of the weather damage they sustain are to the oil pumping machinery but if you dont use that, this things can be a fortress in the ocean. Theyre already built and stocked and all you have to do is hop on one of these at the very last moment and become useful.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Submarine Survive The Great Disaster
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:54 am 
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One may survive on a sub at first....but where do they find safe harbour to replenish....I think a sub is a coffin.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Submarine Survive The Great Disaster
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:05 pm 
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A bunker like an oil rig is good, as long as the anchor link is adjustable. After the math, we sure don't want to end up a couple of hundreds feet below the sea level, do we? :)

I think a mobile bunkers (unsinkable boat, submarine, special design van, balllon???, etc.) is better than static ones. we really can't depend on what the end result to the area where our static bunker located.

Quote:
One may survive on a sub at first....but where do they find safe harbour to replenish...

If a big disaster indeed happened, I think all the survivors (land, air, sea) have to start all over again.

For survivors in sea area, fishing probably a good thing to do.

For land survivors (assume there is still productive land left), they can start to plan and grow something.
From what I read in this forum, if Yellowstone erupt, half of U.S. probably will become unproductive land for the next 10 years.

In my country, recently Mount Merapi erupted, and the land in min 10 Km radius probably useless for a while. Luckily it's not a global disaster, so other people still can help the victims to start their new life.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Submarine Survive The Great Disaster
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 5:13 pm 
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HEEEEY! Youre from Indonesia!! :mrgreen: Sorry about that. I didnt read your intro post until just now! Welcome to the Forum BTW

I've been telling these folks here that you people have been the most unluckiest country this past decade. So far you have had 2 well reported tsunamis and now a major eruption. Thats almost significant for a 10 year period. Oh! BTW. Yellowstone is considered a supervolcano. If it erupts, the north eastern portion of the USA will be rendered barren because most supervolcanoes erupt for about 10 years or even more. You have one almost as powerful. Anything happening with Anak Krakatoa?

You guys have lotsa oil, dont you? Dont you have offshore drilling?

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 Post subject: Re: Will Submarine Survive The Great Disaster
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:48 am 
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Yeah, I am from Indonesia. Currently famous for it's Mt. Merapi. :)
For Mt. Anak Krakatau, the expert said that it's common for her to erupt like that. But the frequency of eruptions keep increasing every day. :?:

We have it all: Earthquake, Tsunami, Volcanos, Floods, Drought, Mud flow, Acute corruptions, etc.
Besides that, we also blessed with a warm and nice tropical country with lots of productive lands for agriculture, metals and minerals mining.

Details about mud flow: wikipedia Sidoarjo mud flow. It is expected that the flow will continue for the next 30 years.

There are some off shore oil rigs in Indonesia. Usually, after the job done, the rig is sold to salvage company and they tear it apart and sold all the steel to steelmaker company for reprocessing.

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