NICE CATCH! I totally didn't see that!

1.2bn population of India to be given biometric ID cards

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/se ... c-id-cards

Social Security card plus some kind of biological identifier?

RFID isn't a new technology, it's been around for a long time. Basically, it's a tamper-resistant method of identifying something with radio waves. Calling it a sign of the end is flat out technophobia.

And to say that people in the first world will be unhappy when it happens to them...well, you're a little late CD. This kind of technology is already standard in new passports that are being issued in the States (and Canada, I think).

http://travel.state.gov/passport/eppt/eppt_2788.html

Does your passport have a logo like this on it?



That means it's an electronic passport, and has your information stored in a chip in the back cover or spine. It's passive technology, so it doesn't emit a signal, and the range is pretty limited. They can't track you with it like a GPS (like the one that's probably in your cell phone).

So, the technology is new, kinda spooky, and should make travel more efficient. Passports are kind of a normal thing for people who travel, so I don't see this as being that dangerous.

Police State? Ummm, depending on what you try to do, we're already in one, but as was demonstrated by the protests on Sept. 14th, we in the States can still gather and demonstrate...well, at least until November of next year, so we have recently heard (:lol:).

Is RFID the dreaded Mark of the Beast? I kinda doubt it. There's a new mark of the beast every few years. Hey, I could be totally wrong about this, but so far there has been no one trying to implant anything, chip or otherwise, in my right hand or forehead.

Back in the 50's when credit cards were first introduced, people called them the mark of the beast, too. Yet here we are, 60 years after their inception, with no apparent anti-christ that I can name in history. Revelations gives a pretty specific timeline, so we have to either assume that a). the bible is wrong and thereby, unreliable for predicting the end times (I'm not stating that as my opinion, just illustrating my point), which means the Mark may or may not be reliable, or b). that credit cards were not in fact the mark of the beast.

If we decide on the latter, and that the mark is yet to come, then who is to say that it is going to be in the form of a card that you can stick in your wallet? I don't think it goes "...and he shall cause each man, woman and child to receive a mark, in a card to be kept in their butt pocket". It's pretty specific that it will be in the right hand or in the forehead.

...that is if you think the mark is something that will be a physical mark. One of my favorite theories is that the Mark is the US Dollar, which every other currency in the world has been measured against "that no man may buy or sell" without it. The mark is what they called their currency in Germany, and if we don't have our dollars in hand, it's definitely on our mind, at the forefront of our thoughts, in our foreheads. If that is the case, there's going to be a lot of unhappy people when they find out they've been duped.

I think technology is a helpful tool with the correct application. If this story had been current, and they had wanted to track how people were reacting to the vaccine, then it makes sense to use some kind of barcode or chip. If someone goes into convulsions, they may not be able to tell health care professionals that they've received an H1N1 vaccine.

I may be a little biased though. After all, I've been working with RFID technology for about 6 years, 6 months and 6 days now...oops, did I just say that out loud?

Um...ok. See, this is the part where a debate degenerates into a shouting match. I've presented a point of view other than yours, so you in turn get louder to drown me out.

Why not just foe me if you don't want to see anything I have to say?

Here are the points (I think) you were trying to make:

1). ID bracelets to track flu victims in Boston
2). OzarkTom's posting about India is a precursor to North America experiencing the same thing
3). "Accepting" the chip/bracelet/ID. I'm not sure if you were making a comparrison to the Mark, but it seemed like it.

My responses, summerized:

1). The boston story was old, not for H1N1, and if something is being pushed through, this is their method of testing. (In some ways I was agreeing with you, but apparently you find the need to take offense, so nevermind)
2). RFID is already here and being used to identify US citizens in Govt. issued ID, so when you say "What will happen this fall?" you are a little late.
3). I gave a rebuttal of my opinion on comparing these bracelets to "The Mark".

So, now you're 'shouting', piecing together short bits of sentances and going off on tangents, but you didn't speak to any of what I had to say.



Did you even bother to read what I said? I said that if a person is unconcious, it makes it a little harder to give your name. Some of what I am stating is in direct support of what you're trying to say, but you don't bother to read. Yeah, seems fishy that if they think something is perfectly safe already that they would want to track reactions to it. Forget it, ok? I'll just directly oppose you from now on if that's really what you prefer. All you do is rant louder.

If you are that opposed to actually reading anything that I write in response to you, then foe me and be done with it, because you're clearly more interested in building a fan base and re-posting the same thing than in coming up with a reasonable arguement for your case.

i'm going with this. while i hate to see a few thousand people die from this death vaccine... at least this will prove it is the killer not the virus.

a bit utilitarian for me...

Ogmios, just a couple of questions:

1) How did health care workers find out the identity and cause for convulsions that lead a patient to non-communitative before the advent of RFID and barcode tracking systems? I know technology is always trying to push the next best thing and sell it to people as better but I don't think putting a tracker on someone is the best idea. If that is the answer pehaps we should tag people like we do wildlife.

2) Having worked with RFID for 6.5 years, could you not see the down side of tracking people like this? I have heard (though I am not sure and maybe you can confirm or deny this for me) that these RFID systems can be read at sixty feet and be read by anyone with the correct tech to do so. I am more than a litttle uncomfortable with the notion that anyone can read my medical history without my knowledge. This could easily lead to a new type of "witch-hunt."

3) If tracking the spread of a virus like this is so important, why aren't they also doing it with HIV/AIDS, TB, and other diseases that are far more leathal RIGHT NOW? Certainly there are more dire viral infections in this country where this tech could be employed, if it is sooooo helpful and necessary.

4) This question is for everybody: How does one scream and yell with text? Text has no audio component and surely if the reader thinks something thier reading is yelling or screaming then it is the reader reading into the message not necessarily the writer's intent. Never once since joining this site have I ever thought someone was yelling, even when the text was larger than normal, or in bold, or underlined etc... I am not familiar with internet chat protocol so if someone could explain this I would much appreciate it (preferablly by pm so that this thread isn't clogged with irrelevent matierial).

1). They had to treat the patient without reference to medical history. Have you ever met anyone who's allergic to penicillin? They wear a pendant or a bracelet to alert medical personell that they can't take that specific medicine or they could die. Why not just tell someone? Well, as we go back to what I keep having to repeat, if you are unconcious it's difficult to tell anyone your medical history.

2). Yes, under optimal conditions, if there is a direct line of sight to the chip from the reader (so, no other people), the chip is directly in front of the reader, the chip is not covered by clothing, there is only one chip in the area and there is no RF interferrence, RFID technology that was released last year could possibly read out to 60 feet. If you are relying on passively tracking a group of people without their knowledge, RFID is a pretty awful way to do it.

Let's say you want to track movement in 12 city blocks. The infrastructure required would be a huge undertaking, power and communications between all units, all protected against tampering, and you wouldn't necessarily want to use just any old wireless communication between stations, because this would cause interference. It's not practical. You want to have short range readers that id someone when you point it at their bracelet, like in maybe a hospital? Now we're talking.

As far as just anyone being able to read the info, that depends on what info you store on it. Name, unique ID and photograph? Ok, what are you going to do with that? It's the back-end data in the database that is the useful stuff. You wouldn't store all the information on the chip, you would have a unique ID that could be referenced by software in a database. So, when it comes to tracking people I think RFID is entirely impractical for what you're talking about. When just about everyone in a major metropolitan area carries a phone that is GPS-enabled, why would you even bother?

3). I never said that the bracelets mentioned in the earlier article were intended to track the spread of H1N1. I suggested that bracelets, whether with a chip or a barcode, could be useful for tracking reactions to an untested vaccine for a virus, much like what's being distributed for vaccination against H1N1. The bracelets in the article previously mentioned were not for H1N1.

4). I'll let someone else explain Internet Communication Etiquette to you, so that you don't feel I'm beating my own drum here.

I'm not asking you to wear a bracelet.
This isn't something new and upcoming on the H1N1 scene.
This is old hat.

It doesn't matter if it is "old hat" or "new hat." What matters is the intent behind using this for the upcoming flu season. Of course the term "tracking" is used loosely here. I agree that they are not going to follow you around by the RFID or whatever is on the bracelet. But my point is why this strain of flu during this flu season? Why not track TB or HIV/AIDS or HepC? And how will wearing these influence the sheeple and how they treat those without them? Could we see discrimination against non-bracelet-wearing people?

Using these means of ID is opening a door to another form of dicrimination. A person doesn't have to wear ID when they fall ill or are being treated for other forms of illness. Why is this batch of innoculations so different?

666... Mark of the beast!!!

Why so surprised people??? This is history repeating itself... reminds me of how the Nazi's "marked" the Jews with the Jewish star on their clothes and with the arm band. Then eventually "trained" them off to the concentration camps to die.

Everything is in place here in US for the same scenario.