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 Post subject: Re: US soldiers shot dead 16 civilians includin' 9 children
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:25 pm 
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Very 2012esque

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A further point I need to make; This is something that the US administration still hasn't got their head around, it's one thing to stand off 2000 miles away and lob missiles into a country and it's a totally different ball-game when you have to send the boys and girls in to mop up.

The mopping up is the crucial part of any conflict and the war is won or lost at that time.

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 Post subject: Re: US soldiers shot dead 16 civilians includin' 9 children
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:25 pm 
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So, I have a question. What if the "kids" in question stand up, and point an AR-15 at you, and fire? Then is it ok to shoot back? And if the kids are 10-15 years old? What about 7? Does the soldier just wait until the kid hopefully misses?

And as to the burning of the koran.. you guys know that they write messages in them, right? That they write meeting times, places, etc.. So burning them effectively cuts off a means of Al Qaeda communication? Just saying. And yes, I do know this for a fact, and no, it isn't just because TPTB want me to believe in it. My family members read/speak multiple languages specific to the ME. My husband's aunt is egyptian, having met her husband while he was there on 'company business'.

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 Post subject: Re: US soldiers shot dead 16 civilians includin' 9 children
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:50 pm 
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Rockhopper wrote:
I am perforce to disagree Xslayer. Firstly, the Taliban were prepared to hand OBL over but Georgie wouldn't have it. Needed a country to bomb the crap out of.

The border between Pakistan and Afganistan is almost non existent. I don't agree with what they are or what they did but it's not up to us to impose our belief system on the people there.

Further; Al Quaida was invented by the CIA to drive the Russians out of there. OBL was employed by the CIA to run the secret base and get Islamic extremists to fight for the cause. If you wanted to root out Islamic extremists, then bomb Saudi Arabia flat. That is where the Whahabbis are.

Had Bush done the job properly then he would have finished what he started in Afganstan instead of wandering off to Iraq, then the situation could and would be much better. Don't start about "Bringing Democracy" to Iraq, my friend, you can not bring democracy at the muzzle of a machine gun. Just doesn't work. Now you have effectively handed Iraq to Iran.

When a war drags out over 5 years or so with no clear end in sight, it starts to become a psychological nightmare for those involved. That is what happened in Vietnam and it is happening there.
There may be an issue with the Malaria protection (not needed in Afganistan anyway no malaria there) but there is an element of psychosis involved.

Most westerners don't understand how the Middle East works. Borders mean nothing there, tribal affiliations do. Muslims are as divers as Xtians are with different factions vying with each other for control. Sunnis against Shias, Shias against Allawites and so on.


Thank you for those comments and welcome to the forum!

I'll just add - some people don't seem to understand that al-Qaeda is not a centralised, top-down organisation. It a perspective. It is embraced by any radical looking for a lose-knit belief system that allows them to commit violence against whatever enemy they chose to target. It is not a hierarchical organisation with a single goal of destroying the US or the west or Christians - just look at Iraq where the al-Qaeda banner is being used in the Sunni vrs Shiite war.

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 Post subject: Re: US soldiers shot dead 16 civilians includin' 9 children
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:44 pm 
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Quote:
Firstly, the Taliban were prepared to hand OBL over but Georgie wouldn't have it. Needed a country to bomb the crap out of.


I seem to recall that coming to light as well. The W. Bush administration declined to pursue regime change in Afghanistan as I recall; the second Iraq incursion occurred after the Afghanistan invasion.

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The border between Pakistan and Afganistan is almost non existent.


What? Afghanistan shares a long border with Pakistan. The Afghan-Pakistani border is made up of Afghanistan's entire southern border extending to the northwest till the border of China for about less than 200 miles in which Tajikistan border rests at that point. Kyrgyzstan rests to the north of that. If you look at the positioning and regime changes in the region, this places US/NATO and Western friendly regimes to Russia's west and south (it's underbelly) as well as to China's west, south via distant Australia, and east via Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan. 9/11 is inevitably being used to Cold War style contain and isolate Syria, Iran, Russia, and China as well as use military force to sustain the US Dollar as the world's reserve currency and attempt to limit international rivalry (choke points seem to be the principle objective). Inevitably, the narrow border appears to be Afghanistan with China.

Quote:
Further; Al Quaida was invented by the CIA to drive the Russians out of there. OBL was employed by the CIA to run the secret base and get Islamic extremists to fight for the cause. If you wanted to root out Islamic extremists, then bomb Saudi Arabia flat. That is where the Whahabbis are.


Saudi Arabia and China are becoming increasingly trade partners, and Saudi Arabia is one of the principle drives behind the Pedrodollar system presently sustaining the US Dollar as the world's reserve currency. If the trend continues, the kid gloves the US leadership have granted Saudi Arabia risks coming off. We're definitely in the cusps of an increasingly heated Trade War, and trade wars via sanctions/embargoes tend to be precursors to major conflict.

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Don't start about "Bringing Democracy" to Iraq, my friend, you can not bring democracy at the muzzle of a machine gun.


Nothing really comes out of forcefully installing one's idealistic, ideological, form of governance, and etc to another but conflict.

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 Post subject: Re: US soldiers shot dead 16 civilians includin' 9 children
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:23 pm 
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'U.S. soldier accused of Afghanistan massacre 'told comrades he killed several men... but NOT women or children'. He had an interesting history of scams and agression outside of his duties in the army. He was said to be a smooth talker (a conman).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z1qLVw8Jv8

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 Post subject: Re: US soldiers shot dead 16 civilians includin' 9 children
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:20 pm 
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Very 2012esque

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I understand what you're saying GW. But hey! No child of 6 or 7 could ever fire an AK 47 or even a M16. The recoil would bowl them off their feet. Often children are used as porters, bringing up ammo and water in a fire fight.

If the reporting of that sad incident with the soldier is correct, he burst into peoples houses and shot the families including children as they slept. That is not war, it's murder.

As for the Q'ran burning, I suspect that it could have been done in a more circumspect manner. The Afganis are deeply religious and imagine what would have happened had some invading force burnt a heap of Bibles in the middle of the Bible Belt in the US. I would perforce to say that there would have been an issue with that. The burning should and could have been handled much better and shows a complete disregard for feelings and beliefs of the local people.

I know Afganistan, I have been there a while back. Just before the Russians dropped in for tea. The border (Kyber Pass Region) is almost non-existent. That area is very mountainous, what is not vertical is overhanging! Anyone can and does just walk across whenever they want to. No border guards on either side.

The country is a buffer state between several other more powerful countries and each is vying for control.

Khazai, (The Sultan of Kabul), only has control of Kabul and doesn't control the rest if the country. It's controlled by warlords and tribal elders.

Al Quaida is a nebulous organisation with differing idealogy, it's not a sovereign state so one cannot have a War with them. They are just a bunch of thugs and criminals hiding behind religion.

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 Post subject: Re: US soldiers shot dead 16 civilians includin' 9 children
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:16 am 
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I didn't want to make a whole thread about this but I wanted to dump this video somewhere and this seemed as good of a place as any. Even with our troops pulling out of Iraq these guys are still going around most likely pulling off this same BS.



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 Post subject: Re: US soldiers shot dead 16 civilians includin' 9 children
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:47 am 
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Rockhopper wrote:
But hey! No child of 6 or 7 could ever fire an AK 47 or even a M16.


Been to Sierra Leon recently?

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