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 Post subject: Is Surviving Really An Option?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:00 pm 
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Very 2012esque

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No matter what happens in the coming days, and no matter who you are or what you do, not everyone will survive whatever transpires. It's simply the luck of the draw in the end. Some will make it and some won't. In the case of a planet eruption, explosion from within, or a solar flare, what difference does it make? Everyone who lives today will eventually die. A simple fact. dying is a part of the process of living when life comes to an end.

However, there are scenarios that can be met with the proper foresight, you can put away food, meds, vitamins, water, fuel firearms and a whole list of things that will possibly extend your life when an event strikes wherever you are that will end normal day to day living.

It takes more than food and guns to survive regardless of what the event is. You need knowledge, and the ability to be dexterous enough to use motor skills and most of all a mental process that will allow you to think about the situation and do the right thing at the right time. The way people learn to use the knowledge and develop the skills to do these kinds of things that will be necessary when the time comes is, they study, learn and then practice what they have learned.

It takes a dedication, a great deal of money and perseverance to put together a complex survival plan for yourself and for your loved ones. It also takes a huge amount of time to have a workable understanding to be able to work your plan. It isn't all about money or guns. It is a total package of learned skills and the dedication to keep putting it together on a day to basis. If you're simply playing at this lifestyle you'll surely miss something, and that something may be a key element when the SHTF. I've been at it in a serious mode for over forty years and I still feel I have a ways to go.
Piers Corbyn is an English gentleman with a first-class university degree in Astrophysics who studies the sun. He has no staff and works with a laptop in a small office, and his research comes from public sources. Over the last 5-10 years he has correctly predicted the world's weather months ahead of time and his success rate is 85%. Serious farmers and other businessmen have been paying attention to his words for several years and it seems to me that we should all be paying attention now to this man, who consistently outperforms (by a wide margin) all "professional" worldwide weather forecasting services.

What is he saying now? Even though this winter in the U. K. has already broken all records for snow and cold temperatures (which he also correctly predicted), he says it will get worse and we are probably headed at least into a "Mini Ice Age." There is also some chance that the recent cold weather will cause a major event to happen.

With that having been said, the probability of a weather caused phenomenon will occur in the near future. What will happen is, it will get very cold, the snowfall will increase over the first winter and as spring approaches it won't melt and it will start to snow again. Before everyone realizes it isn't going to melt it will begin to snow again as before with increasing volume. By that time starvation will begin because there won't be any crops or harvests. Things will be snowbound and all services will shut down. Those who can will begin to migrate south and many won't make it having frozen to death in their homes or being stuck on the roads trying to make it south.

The sun is in a declining stage of activity right now, but that doesn't mean solar flares won't continue to happen. The sun is our primary source of what makes our weather happen here on earth. Thirty five years ago scientists were telling us another Ice Age was coming and then it was usurped over a relative short period by people who were promoting Global Warming for grant money. It was then, and is to this day a political football. There is no verifiable scientific study that has led us to any conclusion the earth is warming up and it is caused by people. None, and that is real scientific fact. There is no grant money involved.

Those who have prepared will survive, but those from about mid way in the US and North of that point probably won't make it once the Mini-Ice Age begins in earnest. There will be a migration when it hits, but in all probability few will survive. As is the case always in these great migrations, the young and the old will die along the way. There will be those who will not allow these refugees to get off the various highways and freeways as they travel south. They will be encouraged to keep going from the muzzle of a firearm. Once they arrive in the Mexican/American border there will be forces trying to deny them entry to fair weather and a growing season geographically speaking.

I have started a retreat where the growing season is 365 days/year, where there is abundant water and it is high enough, (6,000 feet above sea level) to survive a rise in the oceans waters worldwide such as a tsunami created from a land mass falling into the Atlantic Ocean some day. It is always warm although it is high in altitude. The coldest it gets is at night is around 50 deg. F, and you need a light blanket to stay warm as you sleep. The rest of the time it is in the 80's. Our community is self sufficient in that we have an abundance of water, a garden that currently will feed a hundred people, we have brought in cattle, our small lake has been stocked with edible fish, and a small hydro-electric power plant has been installed at the spillway of the lake. Our community center is almost completed, and the next projects are the construction of the hospital and the school. All of our living structures will be underground and inter-connected by way of a tunnel and it is all built into the side of a mountain. Each living unit will have a hydroponic garden with LED grow lights that have a working life of fifteen years. We are testing a few of them now.

Short of the planet exploding, we will survive long enough to pass on a set of values to those children alive right now and those still not born. None of us will live forever, many more will die because although they are prepping, they are doing the wrong things, or are in the wrong place geographically speaking. Some of us will live long enough to pass on the accumulated knowledge we have right now, so those who survive what is coming won't have to revert back to living in a cave somewhere and wearing animal skins. They'll be eating good nutritious food and not having to resort to eating roots. They will survive with most of our technology intact and they will survive with dignity and be well fed. Our information can be obtained off list if anyone is interested. It isn't so much we have the correct answers, it is just a matter of researching the facts currently available to us and I'm certainly not talking about the Government or the main stream media. The majority of people don't realize there are those who know what's coming and they have been constructing underground cities for the elites. They have stored seeds and other DNA in the Artic for preservation of those species just in case. What is really sad to understand, they have done all of this for themselves and they have done it with your money. You aren't included to be saved from what's coming.

Wordsmith


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 Post subject: Re: Is Surviving Really An Option?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:01 am 
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This sounds like another ad for investment in yet another community. Well written but a cut & paste job from another forum maybe? It's grander than most.. with a hospital and a school built in a mountain with a stocked lake and hydro-electric power. Sounds too good to be true.

Subtle, yet playing on the fears that I will be left behind. I ain't buyin it.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Surviving Really An Option?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:49 am 
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Very 2012esque

Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:39 pm
Posts: 45
Cog wrote:
This sounds like another ad for investment in yet another community. Well written but a cut & paste job from another forum maybe? It's grander than most.. with a hospital and a school built in a mountain with a stocked lake and hydro-electric power. Sounds too good to be true.

Subtle, yet playing on the fears that I will be left behind. I ain't buyin it.


I'm also not selling.
In terms of cut and paste, I write everything I post unless it is to illustrate a point by using something else. If I ever resort to that I always quote the source. I don't sell anything with one exception, if anyone has an interest in my book that is for sale.

I have a little problem with people who come at me with no basis in fact in terms of what they say to me or about me. You don't know me, you probably haven't read anything I've written on other forums and yet you come at me with insults and accuse me of selling something out of fear.

Do I fear what's coming? absolutely! I realize full well that some day my number will come up, but until then, I owe it to myself and those who depend on me to be as safe as I can be. Will I prepare until then? You can bet your fortune on that one.


There are a lot of people predicting major natural and perhaps even man made cataclysmic events. I just happen to subscribe to some of them but I don't have a clue what will really happen. So, we decided to make sure some of us will survive in order to pass the torch on to those come along after we are gone.

Have a nice day anyway, and thanks for your input.

Wordsmith


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 Post subject: Re: Is Surviving Really An Option?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:03 am 
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Lots of people around that react to things of others
from "as-they-are"
that don't really compare, one to the other.
Is mainly there by "outside interests" different of "life" in the "here-and-now".

Apparently you (Wordsmith) are looking at
survive-ing in the physical existence of things.

The world around isn't geared towards such self-efforts.

Lots of people around that are seemingly "there-so" more-so than "actually" are, really.

Myself, I have "survive-ing" in a --> immaterial way. Mainly by the "I" of "me".
Of course, there's whatever that encompasses.

My physical existence, has not been gone with by me OR the over-ride-ing "of me" by around.
However things appear to be winding down TO my physical existence.
Nothing that I've been prepared for BUT should be fine as far as I go.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Surviving Really An Option?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:48 am 
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Very 2012esque

Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:39 pm
Posts: 45
As both a husband, a father and a grandfather my goal is always the provider, the role model, and as protector whenever it is necessary to be so. I understand that without me being here, much in and around my family will not continue as it does currently, if I am no longer here. Right now I am here and I consider myself the Captain of the ship so to speak. I guide it and I try to keep everyone focused on where we are going. I realize full well I am mortal and cannot last forever. While I'm here I will do all that I can to insure my family, the children in my family and all of the others who come under my influence will inherit a set of values, a comprehensive moral outlook that is conducive to some semblance of what is good as opposed to what is evil. Once I no longer exist, they will be on their own. I make mistakes but I try to make my mistakes smaller than my successes that are fruitful.

I have taught my children love and to appreciate goodness. I make sure they understand great sorrow is a lesson to appreciate the goodness while it exists. We cannot know unrestrained happiness unless we suffer terrible tradegy. If the sun shines we enjoy it and then wonder at how good the rain can be following the sunshine. Without one we cannot know the effects of the other. I have been fortunate in being married to my best friend. We have shared our lives for thirty-nine years and I hope it will continue a lot longer because I am very comfortable with what we have built together.

We all prepare for prevention. We stop at stop signs, look before we cross a street and get regular check ups. Why? Because we are preparing to live just a little longer. That is why we prepare for anything that might disrupt life as we know it. It could get very bad for all of us. My goal is to live long enough that I can insure my family can do without me. If I can accomplish that, than I have been successful knowing I was able to bring them through with a standard of living and with a moral outlook on life and their fellow man. No more no less for I am only a man.

Wordsmith


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 Post subject: Re: Is Surviving Really An Option?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:53 am 
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Wordsmith wrote:

I'm also not selling.
In terms of cut and paste, I write everything I post unless it is to illustrate a point by using something else. If I ever resort to that I always quote the source. I don't sell anything with one exception, if anyone has an interest in my book that is for sale.

I have a little problem with people who come at me with no basis in fact in terms of what they say to me or about me. You don't know me, you probably haven't read anything I've written on other forums and yet you come at me with insults and accuse me of selling something out of fear.

Do I fear what's coming? absolutely! I realize full well that some day my number will come up, but until then, I owe it to myself and those who depend on me to be as safe as I can be. Will I prepare until then? You can bet your fortune on that one.


There are a lot of people predicting major natural and perhaps even man made cataclysmic events. I just happen to subscribe to some of them but I don't have a clue what will really happen. So, we decided to make sure some of us will survive in order to pass the torch on to those come along after we are gone.

Have a nice day anyway, and thanks for your input.

Wordsmith


I'm sorry if you found what I said an insult. It wasn't meant to be. Your writing is good and your posting is informative.

There are a lot of people out there who take advantage of people's fear and use it to their advantage. Either by taking their money or restricting their freedom. There have been quite a few people who have come to this forum with grand plans for retreats etc. but as the old saying goes "If it seems too good to be true then it usually isn't".

If you're a person who has a bucket load of money that can afford to put a lazy few hundred thousand into a bunker community on the off chance that something "might" happen then fair enough... but for the non-millionaires among us you'd have to really believe without a doubt that we're in for Armageddon to sell your house, pack up and move.

That's the difference between being prepared and being totally committed to building a community off-grid.

I have a few months worth of food in storage, survival supplies, a contingency plan to escape from the city and somewhere to retreat to. I'm prepared. This is the case with the majority of the people on this forum. A few people have doomsteads and maybe a few have a bunker. I'm not going to stop paying my mortgage until the SHTF.

I'm interested to know though... when do you plan to move? Do you have to sell everything up and move to do so? Will you continue to live in this community if nothing eventuates in 2013 or 2014 or 2020? Do you start producing items to barter with the real world in order to stock your hospital with medical supplies and clothe your residents?

I like the idea of a sustainable community living in harmony off the land and producing it's own power and food... but it is quite a commitment.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Surviving Really An Option?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:21 am 
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Wordsmith, it would seemthat you have many resources for constructing and carrying out these plans... How did you come about such wealth? Led grow lights, hydro-electric power supply, underground city, Hospital... I have to say that I am a bit jealous. But what if what comes isn't a mini-ice age? What if it is an eruption of any of the half dozen or so super-volcanoes across the world? Your 365 day a year growing climate will be gone. When there is an eruption of that size the geologic record shows that the tropics are the first to bite it because the indigineous plant species don't have the required mechnisms to adjust to abrupt climate change (as would happen after a super eruption). Not to nit-pick but your plan seems over specialized.

Not a one of us knows for sure what is going to happen in the coming future (unless you have a credible source and are holding info from us... Are yoou?). Yes, skills and the experience using them are the best preparation. Your equipement and shelter (while sounding super nifty) are just toys. Your posts sadden me a bit because it seems (and I could be wrong) that you have no compassion or caring for those who are not as fortunate as you to have 500 acres and a survival complex. I wonder who you really are that you ended up with such things on the scale you say you have them. What makes you any different from the elites?

With the amount of time we supposedly have left you would be helping people more by trying to teach or impart knowledge that might actually help others survive, instead of tooting your own horn. Please don't think that I am attacking your post because I am jealous or spiteful about your position. I am calling you out because you seem to be showing off in the guise of wanting to help (again I could be wrong). Could you not instead give tips on how you make your shelter better or how people could make a smaller version cost effectively? Perhaps provide links to where you are getting your hierloom seeds for your food (I hope your getting hier-loom seeds because if not...)?

I appologize if I sound harsh or dis-respectful as this is not my intent. But please, instead of telling us we are screwed and how not-screwed you are, perhaps you could help others who can't toodle on down to central america and join you. Just a suggestion. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Is Surviving Really An Option?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:36 am 
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I wish you luck, Michael - you appear to have the experience needed to know what you're talking about. I presume your fellow 'Avalonistas' are of similar calibre to yourself? Given your history I can't really see you accepting dead wood that needs looking after.

I'm not sure about the fibreglass idea, although it is flexible - underground is quite safe in earthquakes - most people don't know that almost all buildings collapse from the whiplash effect not the shake, and underground removes that entirely. Unless the quake faults right under you it should be OK.

Also not sure about concrete water tanks - I presume you know enough to proof them for drinking water, but they also collect algae rather well.

What's the L stand for? :D


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 Post subject: Re: Is Surviving Really An Option?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:14 pm 
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Very 2012esque

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My first post here was about going to sea as a retreat. I didn't post that to honk my own horn it was informational to help anyone who is thinking along those persuasions. I hoped it would provide enough information to help someone who might be thinking alog those lines to make a decision. To do it on a boat will cost a hundred thousand plus. If you discover you made a mistake, most of the time you're stuck with the lifestyle and there is no way out unless you suffer a huge loss just to get out from under it or, you just abandon the plan.

I also posted some information in terms of what we are doing down here. This isn't something that happens overnight, it takes years to put it together. I usually think in terms of, "If I get one thing done today, it is a success." The rest follows as in a train following the engine. There are some very talented people working with us, it isn't all just one person. It is a lot of people working together to make it happen for all of us.

I did well when I was working. I was a Commercial Pilot and flew in Alaska, Africa and elsewhere for thirty years. I also worked in the Rock and Roll business as a Concert Producer. I did well at that as well. None of us are the same, and none of us makes the same efforts to make a living. We choose, we go for it, and with enough luck we are successful. I knew some great people who died flying the Bush in Alaska. They weren't so lucky. I also knew some really special people who came home from Vietnam in a box. None of us has the same luck, the drive or the ambition to make things happen. I have always considered myself a person who will go the extra mile to make it happen. It starts with an idea and then you have to hammer it into shape. You make mistakes but pray they are small ones and you can recover.

My own input here is to help people plan and then work their plan. If they don't want to do what a few successful people have done to achieve their dream, power to them. I would be the last person who would want to detract anyone from doing what they think is best for them. I just have a hard time reading put downs which I attribute to petty jealousy. I would consul anyone who is struggeling, to emulate what successful people do. Why try to re-invent the wheel.

When I was a little kid my grandfather told me this, "If you want to do something, do it. Don't tell anyone about it because people are jealous and because they can't do what you're thinking about doing, they will put you down, call you stupid and they will make fun of you in front of others. They will do that because since they can't do it they don't want you to do it either."

The L stands for Laurance but I use Michael in memory of my father who was an honorable man out of respect for him.

Wordsmith


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 Post subject: Re: Is Surviving Really An Option?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:49 am 
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You seem to be dealing well with the... um... less friendly elements here. Glad to hear Tico is a partner not an alias. I think many of the carpers are those who haven't done anything about the subjects they like to post in - I think maybe it is projection - they are sayers not doers and so suppose everyone else must be.

If your site is good it should be capable, barring bad luck, of withstanding initial shock and awe from nature, or Man, (which after all is about as much as anyone can plan for right now - too much depends on just which particular brand of shit hits which particular fan) but you haven't said much about defence. I figure with your background you wouldn't be forgetting that - do you train everyone to be able to help in defence or are you using specialists as a defence force?

Are you stockpiling weapons, creating weapon-making ability or do you see them only as an initial necessity? I live a long way from there but my impression is Costa Rica could be described already as less than law-abiding - if things get tense there will be groups come looking to take you over even before TSHTF.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Surviving Really An Option?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:56 pm 
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Wordsmith wrote:
Cog wrote:
This sounds like another ad for investment in yet another community. Well written but a cut & paste job from another forum maybe? It's grander than most.. with a hospital and a school built in a mountain with a stocked lake and hydro-electric power. Sounds too good to be true.

Subtle, yet playing on the fears that I will be left behind. I ain't buyin it.


I'm also not selling.
In terms of cut and paste, I write everything I post unless it is to illustrate a point by using something else. If I ever resort to that I always quote the source. I don't sell anything with one exception, if anyone has an interest in my book that is for sale.

Wordsmith


So not selling places OK.
But presumably this your site/forum which is just starting up
http://www.thefreeholdsite.com/
As Michael Rusin's blog links to it
http://lmichaelrusin.com/blog2/Blog/217.aspx
So that would be the site which looks as though it will be selling books and videos with the forum with paid membership (sorry about the 'with's).

If Tico is your partner, that would explain the remarkable similarities. Selling places though, it seems. As in
We are mainly looking for interested couples (preferably with children or extended families) who may consider relocating here.
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=22513
I would have a word with him as you said all spots were taken and he seems to be selling places unbeknown to you :shock:
I like the 'caseyboy' posts elsewhere though.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Surviving Really An Option?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:33 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:39 pm
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Aw shucks, thanks.
Wordsmith


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 Post subject: Re: Is Surviving Really An Option?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:49 pm 
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Good luck in your endeavors.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Surviving Really An Option?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:20 pm 
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Rob is okay with Wordsmith promoting his books, etc. as long as he interacts in the forum.
Good luck with your venture Wordsmith.

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What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the master calls a butterfly.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Surviving Really An Option?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:13 am 
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Very 2012esque

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The only thing I sell is my book. No videos and yes, our web site is a paid site, but there is a reason for that. Much of what goes on at a free site is the same back biting that I see going on here. We don't want it on our site. What we want are people who really want to learn if they don't already know or understand about "How To" on many different subjects. We are presenting a place to come and avoid all the childish antics and get to the nuts and bolts of real survival. In all endeavors, if you get something free, it is seldom appreciated and often abused simply because if it's free and it usually is attached to a connotation of no value. What we have has enormous value and those who are going there understand that. It was our plan from the very first day to cut to the chase and get right into what it is each of us needs to know now. We are of the opinion that time is running out and we want to be as ready as any of us can be if something happens. We aren't playing a game, we are preparing to live when others will die.

Those of us who know survival in some depth teach it to those who are weaker in that area. Others are experts in economics and we show those who lack in that discipline how they can do better in certain fields. Others are experts in hydroponics and they show the rest of us how to grow edible plants quickly and without commercially obtained supplies. We have some communication experts who has opened the door of learning in terms of communications without the internet in case it goes down. Others have varied disciplines which they share among our members. What we learn from others are those things that comes very sparingly elsewhere.

In terms of defenses, arms and that sort of thing, we are prepared to take care of ourselves. I don't need to elaborate on that one. Many of us are combat veterans, enough said. We don't need to talk about it. Particularly to strangers on the internet. I came here to offer advise that could be of benefit to those who wanted to know, but having to defend myself at every turn is tiring and quite frankly it probably was a mistake. You can offer the horse water but there is no way to make him drink. I told a friend of mine recently who believes his Chevvy Suburban would get him where he needed to be in case something happened, I said, "if you see a tsunami in your rear view mirror, you're just about to find out what you have invested a lot of money in was a huge mistake."

Wordsmith


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