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 Post subject: Re: Mayan priest debunks 2012 theory
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:34 pm 
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hi pilgrim, i saw a video of some supposed to under regression called "the calston group" hes was supposed to be talking to aliens whilst under Hypnosis one of the beings that came though whom was supposed to be in contact with the creator of the universes guy called Drenzy i think... anyways he mentions the 5th element has being a goodl film.. just thought it was interesting. will try and find a link... with the video

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 Post subject: Re: Mayan priest debunks 2012 theory
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:47 am 
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If the paragraph below is confusing, skip to the following one:

Bob Makransky lived with the Maya and developed a great Maya Horoscope software, that gives insights into Maya conceptions around the use of the Chol Kij (Tzolkin) or 260-day sacred calendar, but he actually knows very little about the Long Count, as do most Maya elders and priests. He gives this away in this interview saying that the Long Count started on 9th August 3114 BC and ends on December 21st 2012. Here, he gives the end date of the " 584283 correlation"(sometimes called the GMT correlation), but instead of the correct start-date of 11th August 3114 BC (the last time it was 13.0.0.0.0), he gives 9th August. The alternative correlation preferred by some Mayanists is the GMT 584285 correlation, (sometimes called the Lounsbury correlation), which equates the start-point to 13th August 3114 BC and end-point to 23rd December 2012. So, this combination is even more wrong than most people's who make a mistake on this, and mix start and finish dates from the 2 correlations.

Sorry if that was a bit over-complex, but the fact is, that the Long Count was out of use by the time that the Spanish arrived, and over the last 100 years or so, knowledge of it has been deciphered and discussed by many specialists. Recently, various elders and daykeepers have been announcing that now is the time to reveal the ancient prophecies, but many of them have been giving out information that they have gleaned from certain New-Age researchers, complete with all the mistakes, and passing this off as ancient prophecy. They are quite understandably annoyed that the Westerners who destroyed the culture of their ancestors and butchered them, and who have been committing genocide on them ever since, should be teaching an increasingly interested public about their cultural artifact - the calendar systems - but...

Worse than this, we now have a situation where a certain New-Age calendar researcher has been manipulating a highly respected elder into supporting his invented Maya calendar system, that culminates in 2013 rather than 2012. Another priest has recently been announcing that the end-point is not in 2012, but 2020 (with no evidence or reason).

Anyway, regarding what Bob Makransky said, there is also a very big mistake in his interview, that was also included in an article he wrote that got passed around the Internet last year. Here is an email that I sent to him in reply to that article:

"Hi Bob,

Your Mayan Astrology program is brilliant. I have had it advertised it on my site for some
time. I think it was you who added it to the 2012 News links list as well (this Yahoo group
is now deleted) (the logo for this group was part of monument 6 at Tortuguero).

I must however, disagree with one of your statements above. There IS a Maya prophecy
about 2012. It is on a classic inscription at a Maya site. The site is Tortuguero and the
monument is monument 6. It states unambiguously that at the end of the 13th baktun on
4 Ahau 3 Kankin (21st December 2012 by the GMT correlation), the "nine support gods
will return" - the bolon yokte ku. This supports the contention of Maud Makemson,
translator of the Chilam Balam of Tizimin, that some of the prophecies therein were
originally about the end of the 13-baktun cycle, and later became attatched to the 13-
katun cycle (short count) after the Long Count knowledge was lost at the end of the
Classic era. Some of these prophecies speak of a return of nine gods.

I agree with you on your attitude to most of the New Age twaddle about 2012, but
regardless of whether anything happens, the fact remains that the Maya expected the
return of these gods, and they expected it over a thousand years ago. What that might
mean is open to discussion...

The inscription has been known about by a small group of Mayanists since the 1970s but
only got into the public domain in April 2006.

For more info, see this page:

http://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/new9.htm#tort

All the best, Geoff"


Yes, folks - don't let anyone tell you the Maya didn't prophesy anything about 2012!

Bob replied:

"...My assertion that there isn't any Mayan prophecy for 2012 is based on interviews I've had with Mayan priests around here (Alta Verapaz) .. plus the whole New Age airhead thing just puts me off. I don't blame the Mayans for resenting it....Thanks for the info, and if you have any more please let me know.

all the best, Bob"


The only way to clarify things is to get an understanding of the ancient calendars of the Classic Maya and try and spread the truth, but it can be a bit complex for people who are phased by maths. This is why the over-simplified versions are so popular. Anyway, I recommend going to Mike Finley's excellent site, The Real Maya Prophecies, for a grounding in the original calendars of the Maya:

http://members.shaw.ca/mjfinley/mainmaya.html


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 Post subject: Re: Mayan priest debunks 2012 theory
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:02 am 
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What about the actual mayan codex? The prophecy is in there. Dresden I believe.

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γνῶθι σεαυτόν - Know thyself and thou shall know all the mysteries of the gods and of the universe.


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 Post subject: Re: Mayan priest debunks 2012 theory
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:17 pm 
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straydog2012 wrote:
If the paragraph below is confusing, skip to the following one:

Bob Makransky lived with the Maya and developed a great Maya Horoscope software, that gives insights into Maya conceptions around the use of the Chol Kij (Tzolkin) or 260-day sacred calendar, but he actually knows very little about the Long Count, as do most Maya elders and priests. He gives this away in this interview saying that the Long Count started on 9th August 3114 BC and ends on December 21st 2012. Here, he gives the end date of the " 584283 correlation"(sometimes called the GMT correlation), but instead of the correct start-date of 11th August 3114 BC (the last time it was 13.0.0.0.0), he gives 9th August. The alternative correlation preferred by some Mayanists is the GMT 584285 correlation, (sometimes called the Lounsbury correlation), which equates the start-point to 13th August 3114 BC and end-point to 23rd December 2012. So, this combination is even more wrong than most people's who make a mistake on this, and mix start and finish dates from the 2 correlations.



Love it
Love it
Love it

Thanks for strayin you ole' dog.
Want to learn a new trick?

The experts have again presented two possible numeric combinations or possibilities.
But the numeric sequences that are in dispute are somewhat reversed again.
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/2008/03/14/the-secret/

Here we have another clue folks, linking possibly the KEY 528 to the GMT?
Watch how a little insight intuitively applied, using a key found, opens doors...

So is it 584283 or 584285.

What is KEY 528?
It is in fact (IMHO) the code that helps unlock the bible.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2038

And this key I found opens many, many esoteric doors.
Who was the owner of this key I ponder?
:roll:

namaste

Raphael

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 Post subject: Re: Mayan priest debunks 2012 theory
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:27 pm 
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My thesis that the same archetypes can be found on many levels was given a jolt yesterday.

Exoterically many events do not appear at all connected, but an esoteric intuitive investigation opens different doors and windows.
Why wouldn't it?
Lets take a look again at an image of DNA and keep in mind this quote.

Quote:
The elongation process is different for the 5'-3' and 3'-5' template.


Image

But what about the significant numbers 3, 4 and 5.
Do you recognize the most basic relationship here?
The 3 smallest numbers necessary to construct a right triangle is something already mentioned.
Life's building blocks need right angle triangles, to create crystals or the 5 basic Platonic solids was already mentioned.


Image


But when speaking of the most basic 2 dimensional shapes, the following associations between shape and number have always been made.

3 = triangle
4 = square
5 = circle


The 3 most basic 2D shapes are synonymous with the numbers 3, 4, and 5.
And it is how the numbers 3, 4 and 5 match up to the most basic 2D shapes that this next symbol again suggests that we are following a path that has already been cast.
And on this level where we operate, sadly many people do want to acknowledge that in fact there is a path where everything has already been written...
How does this modern form of communication transfer, the USB plug, which uses 'filaments' match how our DNA as an archetype is usually illustrated?

Image

Note there are 2 circles...a MACRO circle and a micro circle.
The big circle on this adapter represents the source...not unlike the top spot held in the Kabbala found on the Tree of Life called the Kether.
This USB is attached to a mouse leading to your right/left hand.
The mouse is in your hand is in fact taking commands from you...and these thoughts originate (we are told) from the two hemispheres of your mind.
And esoterically your left hand is connected to the right hemisphere and the right hand is connected to your left hemisphere.
Left could be west and right could be east...if facing north.
There is a powerful analogy here in regards to the dichotomy that divides and defines western (linear) vs eastern (cyclical) theology. How the structure of our minds, is expressed as Socrates would suggest, in how we have structured the world.
Western and Eastern Hemispheres of both the mind and the globe need reconciling.

ImageImage

The Kether sometimes referred to as the domain of the angel Metatron.
Please note that any similarity to the bad guy Megatron in the recent blockbuster film Transformers is purely intentional.
:shock:


Image


As is the Black Cube in that blockbuster of a film.
A Black Cube that in the film was magically transformed from a massive Macro Cube >>> to a tiny Micro Cube, that ewe or I could carry on our person.
That Black Cube looks just like the Black Cube that the Muslims revere in Mecca, a Black Cube called the Ka'Bah, that the pilgrims 'circumnabulate' or walk around counterclockwise.


Did you know that the boy Arthur who became King (after he fulfilled his destiny and pulled the Sword out of the Stone) ... actually pulled the Sword out of an ANVIL?
Are anvils black?
Hmm

ImageImage


And those two images side by side (Birkeland electro-magnetic currents on the left and the USB plug on the right) remind me of two other images.
Thor's Thunderbolt / Poseidon's Trident.
I do wonder if Dave Talbot and the fellas at Thunderbolts.info who are promoting an Electrical Universe are aware of these archetypes?
:wink:

Please do note the consistency of the archetypes and how the information flows from you/source/godhead via the mouse, and is separated into 3 distinct filaments represented nicely by the 3 most basic shapes.
The triangle, square and circle.
How significant are those shapes a right angle to an artist?
To a creator?
To a divine grand architect?
I can only guess.

Image
Image

Image

The above shape is the called the Lorentz Attractor.
The pure mathematician and the dreamy theorist, Lorentz and Einstein, were like two peas in a pod.
This image is the mathematical representation of the theory referred to as the Butterfly Effect.
It involves right angles.
Again.
Why is the right angle so important on all levels?
What if this is a profound clue to unraveling gravity?
What if we are mice in a maze having our DNA altered by Electro-magnetic forces?
What if?

namaste

Raphael

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KEY 528=Swastika=ancient Spherical Standing Wave Theory
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-Einstein


Last edited by Raphael on Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mayan priest debunks 2012 theory
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:03 pm 
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Quote:
And between these two pillars is the illusion that manifests.
The collective humanity.
Represented by the number 4...we are the rungs containing the codes comprised of the 4 essential building blocks A, C, G, and T.
But about the letter U*, you ask?
*RNA contains A, C, G, and U.
Good question.
That is perhaps the next post.


perhaps the u is YOU.. or really US.. that is the real US.. not the Illusion.. is the RNA the so called Junk DNA... crafty barks..!!

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 Post subject: Re: Mayan priest debunks 2012 theory
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:51 am 
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Welcome Geoff!
(I'm sure you have many fans here, including myself)

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 Post subject: Re: Mayan priest debunks 2012 theory
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:49 am 
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hey Geoff...and welcome... :D
( :oops: didn't quite read your post fully before)

thanks for the links... good stuff there....

Quote:
The site is Tortuguero and the
monument is monument 6. It states unambiguously that at the end of the 13th baktun on
4 Ahau 3 Kankin (21st December 2012 by the GMT correlation), the "nine support gods
will return" - the bolon yokte ku.


love it...havent' heard of the site or monument before.. the name is similar to the first site I visisted and learnt all about 2012..
http://www.tortuga.com
you can get your mayan Tzolkin glyph there, n other stuff about the 13 moon calender... this is definately the way to go... must stop using the gregorian account book.. we are just figures/numbers using that.. the 13 moon calender gets us back into a natural cycle of life.. nature's way

Quote:
Bob Makransky
not quite a Bob Marley then.. despite the initials.. :wink:

Love N Peace

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 Post subject: Re: Mayan priest debunks 2012 theory
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:48 pm 
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Del, I'm pretty sue there is no 2012 prophecy in the Dresden codex - or any prophecy. Finley says he only real Maya prophecies are in the Chilam Balams...but then, he wrote that before Tortuguero Monument 6 came into public knowledge. He knows about it, by the way, but still hasn't covered it on his site. Maybe we should remind him it's time for an update. And I should really add notes to my earlier items on Maya Prophecy, to link to the Tortuguero item, and point out that we now know of an inscription from the Classic era of a 2012 prophecy.

http://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/new7.htm#realproph

http://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/new8.htm#mayaprophecy

The whole Dresden codex can be found online here:

http://www.archaeoastronomie.de/codex/cdstart.htm



You may be thinking fhe flooding page?:

http://www.archaeoastronomie.de/codex/CD74.HTM

or perhaps you got it from Partrick Geryl? If so, see my review of The Orion Prophecy here:

http://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/orp.htm

His follow-up books are based around errors made in the Orion Prophecy.

Raphael, check out this page for information n the origin of the Galactic Butterfly or Hunab Ku symbol with pics of the original versions from the Codex Maliabecchano:

http://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/new10.htm#hunab


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 Post subject: Re: Mayan priest debunks 2012 theory
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:46 pm 
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*blanked*

Love N Peace

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 Post subject: Re: Mayan priest debunks 2012 theory
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:46 pm 
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The evolving thesis that the same archetypes can be found through a study of the basic numbers, found on what appears to be disparate levels, was given a 'micro jolt' yesterday.

Exoterically many events do not appear at all connected, but an esoteric intuitive investigation opens different doors and windows.
Why wouldn't it?
Lets take a look again at an image of DNA and keep in mind this quote.

Quote:
The elongation process is different for the 5'-3' and 3'-5' template.


Image

But what number exists between 5-3?
The number 4 is significant to the inhabitants of a 4D reality. A reality that the inhabitants of the 4D world are still trying to figure out...
For a moment, what about the significance of the numbers 3, 4 and 5 in a simple world?
Do you recognize the most basic relationship here?
Pythagoras would.
The 3 smallest numbers necessary to construct a right triangle was already mentioned.
Life's building blocks need right angle triangles, to create crystals or the 5 basic Platonic solids was also already mentioned.


Image


But when speaking of the most basic 2 dimensional shapes, the following associations between shape and number have always been made.

3 = triangle
4 = square
5 = circle


The 3 most basic 2D shapes are synonymous with the numbers 3, 4, and 5.
And it is how the numbers 3, 4 and 5 match up to the most basic 2D shapes that this next symbol again suggests that we are following a path that has already been cast.
And on this level where we operate, sadly many people do NOT want to acknowledge that in fact there is a path where everything has already been written...the message has been sent along the filaments...
How does this modern form of communication transfer, the USB plug, which uses 'filaments' match how our DNA as an archetype is usually illustrated?


Image


Note there are 2 circles...a MACRO circle and a micro circle.
The big circle on this adapter represents the source...not unlike the top spot held in the Kabbala found on the very esoteric and symbolic Tree of Life called the Kether.


ImageImage


This USB is attached to a mouse leading to your right/left hand.
The mouse in your hand is in fact taking commands from you...and these thoughts originate (we are told) from the two hemispheres of your mind.
And esoterically your left hand is connected to the right hemisphere and the right hand is connected to your left hemisphere.
Left could be west and right could be east...if facing north.
There is a powerful analogy here in regards to the dichotomy that divides and defines western (linear) vs eastern (cyclical) theology. How the structure of our minds has perhaps structured the world that embraces us, the divided world is but a reflection of the two hemispheres of the mind.
What if the western and eastern hemispheres of the mind and the globe both need reconciling?
A merger needs to take place esoterically (in each of our minds), before the concept of an exoteric unity, can ever be manifest.
IMHO

The Kether is also sometimes referred to as the domain of the angel Metatron.
Please note that any similarity to the bad guy Megatron in the recent blockbuster film Transformers is purely intentional.
:shock:


Image


As is the Black Cube in that blockbuster of a film.
A Black Cube that in the film was magically transformed from a massive Macro Cube >>> to a tiny Micro Cube, that ewe or I could carry on our person, in fact the hero of that film does carry the Cube and use it to great advantage at the end of the film ... suggesting a sequel is in the works, being scripted by the Holy-wood myth-masters.
That Black Cube in the film coincidently looks too much like the Black Cube that the Muslims revere in Mecca, a Black Cube called the Ka'Bah, that the pilgrims 'circumnabulate' or walk around counterclockwise.
What in fact are these Muslim pilgrims doing or perhaps trying to emulate, without realizing it?


ImageImage


Remember the boy Arthur who became King (after he fulfilled his destiny and pulled the Sword out of the Stone) ... actually pulled the Sword out of an ANVIL?
Are anvils black?
Would an anvil be in some way connected to a magnet, the forces that kept the sword in the stone...until Arthur figured out how to manipulate Electro-magnetism.
IMHO that is what we must do ... to move forward ... err I mean backward in TIME.
:wink:


ImageImage


And those two images side by side (Birkeland electro-magnetic currents on the left and the USB plug on the right) remind me of two other images or concepts that address ancient myths.
Thor's Thunderbolt / Poseidon's Trident.
I do wonder if Dave Talbot and the fellas at Thunderbolts.info who are promoting an Electrical Universe are aware of these archetypes?

Note how the information flows from you via the mouse and is separated into 3 distinct filaments represented nicely by the 3 most basic shapes.
The triangle, square and circle.
How significant are those shapes and the right angle to an artist?
To a creator?
To a divine grand architect?
I can only guess.

Image
Image
Image

Image

The above shape is the called the Lorentz Attractor.
The pure mathematician and the dreamy theorist, Lorentz and Einstein, were like two peas in a pod.
This image is the mathematical representation of the theory referred to as the Butterfly Effect.
It involves right angles.
Again.
Why is the right angle so important on all levels?
What if the right angle is a profound clue to unraveling gravity?
What if?
:wink:

namaste

Raphael

_________________
KEY 528=Swastika=ancient Spherical Standing Wave Theory
“A theory is more impressive the greater is the simplicity of its premise, the more different are the kinds of things it relates and the more extended its range of applicability…”
-Einstein


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 Post subject: Re: Mayan priest debunks 2012 theory
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:15 pm 
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I love the link with the USB n the Tree of Life... 8)

Quote:
The elongation process is different for the 5'-3' and 3'-5' template.

Different Paths..from the same thing.. leading back to the One..which is really Two... Yin/Yang....
Quote:
And on this level where we operate, sadly many people do NOT want to acknowledge that in fact there is a path where everything has already been written...the message has been sent along the filaments...


what path r U on Raphael...??

Quote:
And esoterically your left hand is connected to the right hemisphere and the right hand is connected to your left hemisphere.
Left could be west and right could be east...if facing north.


Left for Love.. Right for Spite... ever heard that one before..??
n
What goes Around, Comes Around


Love N Peace

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 Post subject: Re: Mayan priest debunks 2012 theory
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:55 pm 
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Quote:
But what about the significant numbers 3, 4 and 5.
Do you recognize the most basic relationship here?
The 3 smallest numbers necessary to construct a right triangle is something already mentioned.
Life's building blocks need right angle triangles, to create crystals or the 5 basic Platonic solids was already mentioned.


How does this correlate to the different end dates of December 21 and 23? I notice these dates correspond nicely with the predicted 'three days of darkness'--is it possible that certain 'divisions' will be made during this 'dark' period?


Perhaps we should start refering to 122112 as 'Division Day'? 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Mayan priest debunks 2012 theory
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:13 am 
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straydog2012 wrote:
Del, I'm pretty sue there is no 2012 prophecy in the Dresden codex - or any prophecy.


We have a few threads on the forum talking about the prophecy mentioned by the Mayan's in the dresden codex. That's where I remember hearing it from.
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1661&p=20116
amarahsdaddy wrote a few posts about it, this is one of them. Amarah said it comes from the dresden codex.

This is part two of Amarah's posts about it.
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1668&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

I have read many books on 2012, such as The Orion Prophecy, which was a long time ago so I can't recall if it was mentioned in it. I don't give much credibility to the author from the impression I got from him, his style of writing, the psychological side of him, his facts, etc.. but with everything else I have read, all of that gives him more credibility. I'm not too good at remembering everything I have read and learnt so it's always good for me to get reminded of information regarding all of this.
I will have to check out your review of his book sometime. (maybe I already did years ago? :-P)

I came across your site a long time ago, before I found this forum if I remember right. (2004 perhaps) It's great to have you here. You will find you have many fans here once they understand who you are. =)

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 Post subject: Re: Mayan priest debunks 2012 theory
PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:56 pm 
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The Pilgrim wrote:

How does this correlate to the different end dates of December 21 and 23? I notice these dates correspond nicely with the predicted 'three days of darkness'--is it possible that certain 'divisions' will be made during this 'dark' period?


Perhaps we should start refering to 122112 as 'Division Day'? 8)


Not sure about the correlation at this time, but I see 2012 as a contraction, not an expansion.
If you see two, it might be a contraction, from 3?

I see the patriarch the spark, the flame giving rise to expansion.
Ultimately we are headed toward contraction, the abyss, the feminine generative waters that help contain the fire.
Hilary may indeed have a chance...

If America even has elections this year?
A coup by the current Commander-in-Chief, Herr Bush?
Is that possible?
McCain does not stand a chance against Hilary or Barack.
So America has an opportunity to either elect its first woman or first 'black' president.
2012 probably calls for a Black President and a Black Pope.

Why would I say that?
Take a look at Pope Ratzinger/Benedict's official Papal Coat of Arms.
I see Obama.
Who do you see?

Image


Consider Britain and the US ... extensions of Rome.
The Vatican has always had a standing army to carry out their nefarious deeds.
Britain / USA are the Roman Army bringing us a New World Order.
Who is the puppet master?


Image


Just needed to remind everybody who destroyed, obliterated, confiscated, altered, marginalized, and mystified the Mesoamerican history...
What if this dude and his male secret society ain't so innocent, eh?
What if?
Fooled ya all...what an ending...
:evil:

namaste

Raphael

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